Rob Garrett Smith - Phluid Project - From Fashion Executive to Change Maker

What happens when success is no longer enough?

On this episode of Canvas with Novo Collective, Monica Novo sits down with Robert Garrett Smith—fashion executive, philanthropist, founder of The Phluid Project, and champion for authenticity.

From navigating the corporate fashion world to creating a movement centered on inclusion, identity, and human connection, Rob shares the moments that challenged him, shaped him, and inspired him to give back. We also dive into Burning Man, reinvention, purpose, and why being unapologetically yourself may be the greatest success of all.

This is a conversation about courage, community, and living life beyond labels.

🎙️ Listen & Watch now on Canvas with Novo Collective.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hi, I'm Monica Novo. Welcome to Canvas, podcast where every episode is a fresh canvas. We dive into stories that make you pause, conversations that open your perspective, and the ideas influencing art, lifestyle, entertainment, architecture, and the way we connect as humans. Together, we look beyond the surface into the moments, the places, and the people quietly shaping how the world moves and why we keep evolving. Hello, everyone. This week on Canvas, I sit down with Rob Garrett Smith, fashion executive, futurist, activist, and founder of the Fluid Project. For a conversation that goes beyond style and business. From climbing the heights of the corporate fashion to walking away from the safety of the traditional system to build something radically human, Rob's story is one of reinvention, courage, and purpose. At the time when most people were protecting their titles and staying comfortable, he chose to create a space for people who never felt seen. But in this episode, it isn't just about fashion. It's about identity. Freedom, humanity. Community and what happens when success no longer fulfills your it happens when we read that part again. But this episode isn't about fashion. It's about identity. Freedom, humanity. Community, and what happens when success no longer fulfills you unless you're giving something meaningful back to the world. Rob, welcome to Canvas. I'm so happy to have you with me.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Happy to be here with you.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

I love that we are here and we are in your home in East Hampton.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

We're in our beautiful backyard. This is absolutely stunning. It's a magical place.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

It is a magical place. I love that we're in your barn, too. I mean, this is an amazing little barn. It's so rustic and raw. It just feels like true home.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Feels like home. We want it to be a beach house where people can walk in with sandy shoes, you know, not worry about anything, just chill, safe space that, you know, you can just come and disconnect from the world for a few days or for a year. It really is beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

It's so easy to get to. I mean, you are literally right down. For me, I don't always ask you for your address because I always forget the number. But I always know that you have to make that left at red horse at the market's. That is like the marker point for everything. How have you been? How's everything?

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Everything's good, like really good. I feel honest. Somebody asked me the other day on a scale of one to ten, how do I feel? And I answered nine and a half. Which I haven't been a nine and a half for a really long time. And it's a combination of a lot of things. It's health, it's relationships, it's family, it's abundance versus scarcity. It is I just feel I feel whole right now and I feel at peace with myself.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Yeah, it is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

It really is amazing. And we we take so many things for granted in life that we forget us. And truly for us to be the best version of ourselves for everyone, we have to first be the best version of ourselves for us. That's right. And I really I've learned that gradually as I've gotten older and my kids have gotten older, and they they teach you different aspects of life as things evolve. Life is an evolution, we know that.

SPEAKER_04 3:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

I really am so happy that you are in this amazing state of your life, and it's gone through a variety of changes.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Just like every every the hero's journey, you know, it is my life, like all of our lives, are a hero's journey. And I and I've learned to lean in and embrace it and really understand where I am on the journey. And it continues to cycle around. And I'm just appreciating where I am today. And I and I know it's not permanent, you know, that things will happen in life.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

There's always change.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

There's always change, and there's always passing and rebirth and in many ways and in people. But right now, I'm just appreciating where I am at this moment.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

And your amazing husband, Rod.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

My traveling.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

He's in India right now.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

He's he'll be back today from India. Yeah, yeah. We had a wonderful time celebrating his birthday in London, and then he went off to India for two weeks and backpacked through India. And that's bold.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Like that is really I mean, and he did this by himself.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

He did it by himself.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

Did he have a guide taking him around or anything?

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Well, he found guides when he got there, but he had nothing planned. Yeah. I mean, he had the guy, the the guy that uh took me around Varanasi, he had planned to somehow it didn't work out between the two of them. They couldn't figure it out, but he found an even more magical experience. So it's yeah, it's just I'm proud of him. Can't wait to hear about it when he gets home tonight. It's exciting. It's it's really like leaning into, I think when you when you trust the universe, when you trust that you'll be taken care of, and you just lean in and it's like it's like it's like jumping off a cliff and just the that feeling of exhilaration and hoping that that parachute opens up. A little scared, right? A little afraid. But I think that when you what does the fear that's where growth is when you when you overcome your fear and you're uh yeah, you get out of your comfort zone. That's that's amazing. So much growth happens.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

And I just I'm I'm super proud of Rod taking this journey to India. I've always been interested in India, but it's never been a calling for me to go. I think for myself, it's there's just so much poverty and it just breaks my heart. And it's like you want to do so much, and I'm sure you probably felt this way when you it just eats at you to how can I help these people? But there's the population in India, which I don't even know the exact number of population in India is the most populous nation in the world.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Yeah, it exceeds in China now.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

And it's like you can't do much, and there's such wealth in India, and it's like and I could be wrong, I'm not 100% factual on this, but I just feel that there is so much more that can happen in the world and not just India. That so countries that have you know extreme poverty is somebody that just it kind of eats at my heart, and I just don't know how I could go and visit a country and feel okay with it.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Well, well, I I hear that and I and I've seen it, but also I under I experience pure joy. Like, you know, they're not connected to iPhones like we are. There's not this like that's true and they're living in the present and the and this understanding of karma and that, you know, they feel like wherever they are in this life and the caste system or whatever that if they behave in in a way that's you know aligned with their teachings, that you know, they'll come back the next life better. And I and it really is an interesting concept. I do have I do have a thought, like you can't fix everyone, although I would walk around with small dollars and I wouldn't I wouldn't tip like the people around the tour spots, but I I'd go on the outskirts and I'd give money away. And it just brought me so much joy. And I had this one story with I had a driver in Varanasi, and uh and he was wonderful, and I asked him at the last day to pick me up in the morning, and he he kind of looked at me and he said, Okay, they said, You hesitated, why? He said, Well, Mr. Rob, I live far away and I have to walk to the bus, I I have to bribe my bike to the bus stop, take the bus, walk to get the van, and it'll take two hours altogether. And so I have to leave very early. Two hours? Two hours. I said, Well, why don't you have a motorcycle like everyone else does? He said, Mr. Rob, I'm saving up for my daughter. She, you know, to get her out of the cast system, I just want her to have education. And I said, Oh, I understand. And so I asked her on how much a used motorcycle was, and I found out it was about $450. That's it? That's it. $450. So I put $450 in an envelope. And when I when I tipped him on the last day, I said, please accept this gift, but also please accept it, knowing that with the understanding that you're not going to spend it on your daughter, you're going to save it for yourself so you can have a better life and spend more time with your daughter. And so a week later he sent a photo of his daughter sitting on his new motorcycle. That's amazing. And I thought, like, that's that's that's how that's changed. And he and he messages me just about every single day. Still, that was eight years ago. And he messages me every day.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Rob, you are what an amazing soul you are. I mean, but that is that's just authentically you.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

It's just a simple gesture. It really is.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

And it is a simple gesture because for us, $450.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

It's a dinner.

unknown 8:44

I don't want to explain.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

It's really simple. I mean, a dinner not just for two people, a dinner for six, but uh still, but it can be a dinner. And you know, do that as all the time, but I'd rather sit out a dinner and stay home and eat macaroni and cheese than buy somebody else's motorcycle once in a while.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

Yeah, no, it it's true. It's like I think when you travel and you do, like I said, you see such poverty, and you do, you're right, have to go to the areas that are not touristy because it sometimes it's a scam.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Well, they they it it can be really sad because bones are broken, limbs are are torn off. For them to for them to ask for money, and and I don't want to support that. I will not support that. But I will find families, you know, and just like give it to children and just watch the joy in their face. It's I don't know. Money, can money buy you happiness? Sometimes it can buy somebody some some joy, you know. You can pass it on to some joy, yes.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

For some people it can buy them happiness and joy, for sure. But for those that are of extreme wealth, uh does it buy them more happiness? No, it just buys them more artificial stuff. Stuff, stuff, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

And and people who want their stuff, you know, it's uh it's dangerous.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

I mean, it's Listen, we come into this world with nothing. Yes. We're going to leave this world with nothing.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

So, I mean, I love how you you grow up and saying, Oh, I'm gonna leave my fortune to my kids, to my family, and everything. I'm like, hell no. I mean, my kids will get some some, but I want to be able the day I die, I want to be able to bounce that last track. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

I tell my parents, die with a penny each.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Die with a penny each. Don't worry about us. Die with like live life. No, they never will. You know, my mom will, a perpetual TJ Maxx shopper and uh-in-law. My mom, but my mother-in-law. Yes. But yeah, I mean, I grew up in a house where money was. I mean, my mom would get the groceries and come home, and she would get the receipt out and pull every item out of the grocery bag it and check it. And if they overcharge her for one can of soup, she would go back and get her money back. Like money was not something that we had a lot of throwing. I mean, we had enough, we weren't suffering, but it wasn't comfortable. But it was I know my dad had stress, you know, the stress of raising four kids and putting them through college. And yeah, I appreciate them for what they did and yeah, still do.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Yeah, I mean, our parents definitely I don't want to say they had it harder, because when I look back, and I'm sure you as well, similar in age, and the cost of living back then to buy a house back then to the price of a gallon of gasoline back then we're paying six dollars a gas right now. It's mind-blowing. But the job pay structure then was very minimal.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

And you, if you work, I mean, I remember went to college and I was a you know, count executive assistant, and I was making twenty thousand dollars a year as a salary. Now, we're talking about 1988, and that back then was a decent salary. And this is my generation now. I left finance to go into real estate and because my best friend was like, you need to do this. And my first year in real estate, just doing rentals, I made over six figures in 1989. Jesus. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. Listen, I worked my ass off. I showed apartments, I ran through the city, and remember 1989.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

That was not a good year.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

It was it was it was you were taking the metro up, down, here, there, rolls of quarters in your pocket because it's I don't even think cell phones were out just yet. Or maybe they had those big brick phones, or I don't think they were. I don't think they were. No. So you were going from one apartment to the next. If you were running late, you had to jump out, go to a payphone. It was insane. But you worked your ass off. You showed apartments with little flashlights, what because the electricity was turned off, while because it was an empty apartment and nobody wanted to exhaust a bill and have electricity on. So you would show and like once the sun went down, you're like, flashlight, this is the apartment. Like, here you are. But our parents worked that much harder.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Yeah, they didn't. That much harder. And they saved that much more and they stretched a dollar that much more. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

Well, what I love is that our parents definitely taught us how to value a dollar and how important it was. Same thing to time. Time is always very important because the time that you waste or that dollar that you waste, you never you can never get it back that easily.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

And also the importance of family. Family was the center of our life was family.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Tell us a little about your family.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

My family, my family, I have a wonderful family. My my what do they call it? Nuclear family, my immediate family. I always thought that was a strange term, but it's kind of funny if you think about it. Like who are you gonna sit in a a nuclear, what's it called? Like a like a like what's the if the world's gonna come to an end, who's the who's the people you're gonna have in your cellar? Oh, your bunker. Your bunker, right. You know, my my growing up my family was my dad and my mom. I had an older brother, a younger sister, younger brother, very close still. And now we have, and now my husband, and so now we have between the two of us 15 nieces and nephews. We have about seven grandnieces and nephews, and we're on the way, you know, and they're just the beginning. They're just beginning to sit baby.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

So big family.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

We'll have a big family, yes, between the two of us. It's and it's beautiful. We spend more and more time with the family. We've, you know, I know my husband and I like our professions are important to us when it comes down to it, our very tight, close, close group of friends, which you are, in that circle, which gets smaller and smaller, and but our family becomes more and more important. And it's so nice now having nieces and nephews moving to New York and getting quality time with them. Uh almost every one of them has lived with us.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

What's the age range between that?

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Right now I'd say it's uh 17 to 35, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

So all within the age of being able to like hang out and have a good time.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Oh, they're it's fun. They're they're such a fun age. There are certainly some have gone on to have kids. Still fun, but it's but still we have family night every every month in New York, and whoever's ever in New York City, there's family meeting our hours today. We get together. I love making dinner for everyone.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

And you are a great cook.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Getting better and better practicing.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

Practice makes perfect.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

I love it. I love I really love to learn how to cook. And the New York Times app is my favorite. And I all the recipes. All the recipes. I love it. I really enjoy cooking. I enjoy pleasing people with the cooking too. Like the part of it is not just the actual cooking, which I love. I love serving it and watching people.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

And the joy of what people feel like when they're eating it. Yeah, I I agree. I mean, I like cooking. I prefer to clean up.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

You do. I mean, I think. Although I I try to make it so much easier. I try to clean as I as I go.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

You are an amazing cook, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Which I love. You you definitely filled up a killer meal that would challenge any any of the best restaurants on here last night. What did you make? Yeah, well, we just made fillet and brussels sprouts and potatoes and nice dessert. It's really nice.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

Who did the cleanup?

SPEAKER_01 16:18

I cleaned as I go, so the cleanup is very minimal, but everyone jumped right in. We were done in 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

Not like my wife. She uses every platter, every pot, every pan, every saucer, every ladle to make one thing. To make one thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:34

But it's delicious.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

It is delicious. You know, it's such a selfless, kind, human, uh, just the level of humanity that you have. And that is just you. And we're gonna talk a little bit more about like what you've done with Fluor Project and how you've given back to the LGBTQ community. And well, but we're gonna go into a little bit other things before that. All right, all right. We're gonna touch a few uh few few few topics, but uh you for being such a kind person and just a wonderful human. I really honestly to me it's it's a gift to be sitting here with you and just getting to know a little bit more about your life, though I know and we're gonna dive deep a little. You've had this incredible trajectory leading massive global brands to creating something deeply with your uh personal ideas and wanting to give back and doing the fluid project. Was there a moment when you realized success that you had before wasn't as important and you wanted to do something that fulfilled you a little bit more, and how you could give back without having to think about the ambitious career?

SPEAKER_01 17:48

I I've I've been blessed my whole life professionally, you know, falling into retail and fashion by accident and and just how good I was at it and how much support I had in my career of people mentoring and and coaching me, and and I was a little superstar, you know, and I But what made you get into fashion? It was it was it was an accident. I I was in college in Michigan State, and I was I really wanted to work for Procter Gamble. That was my goal, it was PG, was like what we did in the Midwest. It was a good Ohio, like you know, it was a good company, and it was like that's where I wanted to work. And one day I got a phone call from this recruiter on my answering machine. Remember, we hit play? Yes. And it was uh, hello, this is so-and-so from Berdines. We heard you're interested in coming to work for us. We happen to have a cancellation at three o'clock tomorrow if you're available. I didn't know what Berdines was. Oh my god! So I got on my bicycle in March and rode to the library through the snow and pulled a book out as this beautiful department store with white palm trees like made out of marble. And I thought, wow, this looks really cool. So, and plus uh, so I went to the interview and they I got a second interview, and I thought, well, who wouldn't take a second interview in Miami from Michigan into the month of March? I was so happy to. And I went down there and I thought I really liked it. I got a job of her, and I and I jumped into it, I guess. It was $18,000 a year with $500 finding a bonus. Called my dad, like, dad, great news. And my dad was silent and he was like just shocked, like, what are you doing? You know, retail wasn't considered a real career for many people. It was uh kind of uh what women did until they, you know, got married and you know, we called it the MRS degree at Michigan State Retail. And then darn if I wasn't I wasn't good at it, you know, and I really and I loved it. I loved, love, loved it. I still love it. I love it. I love fashion, I love and fashion is.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

And how long were you there?

SPEAKER_01 19:41

I was there for 10 years, then I went to Macy's West in San Francisco for six years, Macy's East in New York, and I I was all together Macy's Federated for 25 years. And then I jumped to Victoria's Secret for a few years.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

Oh, that was fun.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Yeah, that was fun, and then and then a kid's company called Hadabrands for six years. I worked at Levi's and Nike globally, and then I then I launched the Fluid Project.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

So tell us about the Fluid Project.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Sure, Fluid is it's really the intersection of fashion and community and education, and the name says it all. Fluid is the space between two uh two, like, you know, I can call it constructs. It's almost like a river with two walls, and it's the ability to f navigate easily between the two. Fluid uh in this way was gender-free with degendering fashion. I mean the pH fluid stall spelled pH, which represents balance. So this balance.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

And and it was really this started as a store, and it was two-thirds retail, one-third community space. We had about five events a week there, uh, and really created a space for everyone to be their authentic selves. That all types of people were welcome there. We celebrated certainly queer identity and all aspects of queerness, but also anyone was allowed in and and invited in to be a part of the movement. And the movement was to deconstruct outdated ideas around what it is to be any identity, you know, race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity. There's a fluidity in all of it. And and it it's really the it's really just breaking down those barriers so people could find a space between the two binaries that to find that they might be able to do it. Which is difficult. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

I mean, it's not easy thing for the younger generation today. I mean, I think this has been a cyclical thing where it's like from dating from when we were young. I mean, you were you come from Ohio?

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Uh Michigan. Michigan Catholic.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

Catholic. Yeah. Exactly. So you came out how old were you when you came out?

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Twenty two, I think. Twenty two, twenty three, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

And how was that? How did it go with your parents?

SPEAKER_01 22:00

My parents were it was rough. Every time I went home, I would like try to tell them. And it was just always like a weekend and never found the right time until my sister's engagement party or something. I think I finally just my mom was driving. I said, Mom, I have something to tell you. You might want to pull the car over. And so I did. And I told her that I was gay. And she cried. And I think she told my dad that night. And my parents were, I left them both books and their nightstands with a note for myself. And my mom, I left the book, and my dad, I left the book around sports because my dad was an athlete. Gosh, I forget that guy's name, Billy Bean, I think it was. And a week later I called him up on Sunday. I called him every Sunday. I said, How so how are you doing? Just checking in. They said, Well, we just got back from Key Flag meeting. I said, What's key flag? They said it's parents and friends with lesbians and gays. I said, How did you know what a key flag meeting was? And uh and they said, Well, you left us our books, and we both read our books and the back and looked at their resources, and so we found the nearest one, which was about 45 minutes away, and they drove there and they went there and they sat there. And uh They came out and they said, you know, that they felt really bad for these families that have been coming there for years and years. And they said, you know, we love our son, and we don't need to go back, we don't need to go back here again for any validation to love our son. We love him.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Yeah. Wow. That is finished. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

It you've been you you're definitely one of the lucky ones.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

I am the one and and my mom said so sweet, she said, if any of your friends' parents have trouble, just give them my phone number, I'll go and talk to them. And then they've been they've been remarkable in this journey. And I uh you know, unfortunately, for a decade practiced them kicking me out of the house, you know, preparing myself for the worst case scenario. And I wish I could have those those moments back again, not having to worry about that.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Well, that's yeah, I mean, it's it's not easy. It's not easy for a lot of people. And the fact that you've you started fluid, what year was it?

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Uh 2018. Yeah. And 208 2018, Fluid was it's as much it was it was me combining everything I believe in, you know, my work with Hatrick Martin, my work in fashion, my, you know, a lot of it is also was for my little self. Was for this little queer boy who, you know, couldn't find a way to, you know, like I was artistic and creative. And I think it was uh creating a space that he would have appreciated and he would have, and I and it in a way, just making my little self proud, you know, and uh and just something that he would look up on me and say, Yeah, you're doing good. I'm proud, I'm proud of you.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

And so I think about that little guy and how to make him proud. You're gonna make me cry.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

No, but it's again, I reiterate, you were an exceptional human being, and it's it's beautiful. Thank you. And your husband shares the same equal passion as you.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Oh, he does.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

You both were on the board of HMI as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. HMI for the listeners who don't know is the Hetrick Martin Institute, and it's the first ever LGBTQ after school program started in New York and services thousands of children, uh young, young adults in the tri-state area and globally. Helps as well.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

So really's been around for 45 years now, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

45 years.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

And they host, you know, various fundraising events for the community from schools out and Emery Awards. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Emery Awards are amazing in their and we've got amazing spaces that donate their spaces from the Emery's to schools out. I think this year, schools out, you're I'm just I'm assuming you'll be there as well. Always. This uh, I believe it's the July, the weekend of the last weekend in July, and it's being held in Bridgehampton. This beautiful estate that the family has donated to host the event. And it's generally roughly about 600 people that come, and then there's that sit-down dinner that's you know, host about another two and amazing sponsors. So many people give back, so many people are part of it. I mean, I try to every year be on the committee and just get people, you know, bring awareness and have people understand what this is about, bring sponsorships. Uh, we're working on trying to get to finalize a sponsorship, which is Mass Capital. There are big developers in Florida, and they have projects in Florida and New York. And I think it's just a great synergy to bring more awareness down to South Florida and Miami. It's clearly being the state that it is. Yeah, we all know.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

You have our love and support, Florida. Yes, you do. So the South in general, yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

But uh, so it's it's an amazing cause. It really, really is.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Um, one of the things, just building on that, uh one of the things I I, as a result of HMI, part of Fluids, what Fluid was that I created the Fluid Foundation. I created GetFluid, which is gender-expensive training and helping corporations understand the breaking the binary, you know, understanding how the binary holds people back and and and you know, creating more space for people to be who they are. And when people know who they are, they're a better version of themselves and they help and so they show up better. But the Fluid Foundation I created to take work with corporations to reallocate money to HMIs around the country. So small groups, specifically BIPOC-led organizations, and we're 25, I guess the $2,500 or $5,000 would go a long way. So in the last five years, we've given away over a million dollars to the Fluid Foundation. So that is something that I'm really, really proud of.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

You should be proud of that.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Really proud of. And we're the corporations that have supported us. But I I it's every year, like writing checks and giving it to organizations with zero, they they have zero responsibility to tell me how they spend their money. It's a system built on trust. And so giving money and and just knowing that if you they want to take everyone out to a spade because they've been working their asses off. Like so it would be it, I'm not gonna tell you to spend your money, it's trust. A lot of you know, the way systems are in place when it comes to gender and race, there's a there's a system of trust. Someone might look at me and say, I trust you, but might look at a black trans woman and say, I don't trust you. And so for me, it's like it's it's spinning it around and just giving money and trusting, they'll spend it the right way.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

It generally it is spent the right way. That's that's really interesting. So out of curiosity, what is one thing that corporate America still gets wrong with our younger generation?

SPEAKER_01 29:00

What is one thing, by the way? I always ask to not know what the questions in advance.

SPEAKER_04 29:05

So I like to be surprised.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

So if I seem like I I didn't know this, I knew this answer and didn't know how to answer it, it's just because I like to be surprised and question it. You, this is how you wanted it. What is one thing that corporations get wrong with younger? They still get wrong. They still get wrong. I believe and always built believed in empowering young people and giving them a chance and allowing them to make mistakes, and mistakes are okay to happen. You know, that's how people grow. Sure. And you know, and I and it's finding that right young person that just goes the extra distance. You know, I was, you know, not to make this about me, but I was young. Remember my boss like, you know, got pregnant, and I was like so excited because I was able to like show up and be the buyer and I was an assistant buyer, and I got there at six in the morning and I'd stay until seven at night or eight at night to get my job done and her job done. And I just love the opportunity. And I think, you know, finding young people, a lot of people write young people off as privileged or not hardworking or disengaged. I think there's plenty of them that are, and I I thrive off of young people. I th definitely thrive.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

I I look at our younger generation and listen, it's like you said, so yeah, as a younger adult, I definitely made my fair share of mistakes. And working in corporate America when I was younger was very different than today. Because even though I worked I basically am my own boss.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_03 30:42

My own company, so I try to think about like what the younger generation does and how they evolve and how they do things because life has really changed. I mean, I tend to say the younger generation today is slightly soft and doesn't have the thick skin that day-to-day requires, but I try to have that empathy and compassion because I always say it's not the person, it's how they're raised and what they're taught and the education. So whether it's having kindness and empathy and compassion and love and forgiveness corporations, I think, for me, I think that they need to have a broader idea and spectrum of being able to have a little forgiveness and a little compassion for the younger generation while still trying to educate and teach them. That's how I see it.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

I love I I about I work at a big company now, centric brands, and run the kids division. And I love being around young people. Like, you know, and I think there's a lot of uh hierarchy where, you know, somebody only wants to talk to like, you know, the highest level person in the room and only like everyone else's kind of sits there. And I'm like, no, what do you think? What do you want to do? And and I see them and ask them questions and take their insights and try to build their confidence that way, that they're not just there to like do like manual entry stuff, that they're there, they've got an opinion, and I want to hear it and I want to build people up that way.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

I'm yeah, I I I agree. In the end, I would say I want to learn.

SPEAKER_04 32:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

Because it doesn't matter what we know or how much we know, we're going to learn new things every day. And I've learned so much from my kids, from their friends, from the younger generation that I work with, that are my colleagues, that I do business with. I listen, I say if I had to apply and go into college today, I probably would never get in. The things that they have to do, the things that they have to do and learn in today's world is it's a little frightening.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Listen, I also think college is overrated or a degree is overrated. Depends on your profession. Absolutely, for sure. But not everybody needs to go to college and end up with, you know, $200,000 worth of debt. You know, it's it's not necessary.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

Yeah, uh definitely not.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Uh but you mostly people want to be entrepreneurs, and I think having been an entrepreneur and and treating each business like an entrepreneur business, you know, within my own world and my own business, I think, has really helped a lot too. Yeah. And bringing an entrepreneurial spirit to a corporate situation. Yeah. Yeah. Defeating them with that kind of energy.

unknown 33:27

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

I love that. All right. Fun question.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

What's something people assume about you that they completely get wrong or that's inaccurate?

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

I think maybe because of the way I look, maybe that I'm a bit shallow or don't have a depth that I have in spirituality. Maybe if somebody doesn't know me. Sure. Yeah. I think I think sometimes people think I'm also, you know, the wild one. I've I've got this reputation of being, you know, a little crazy and um I'm actually kind of boring.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

Boring. Boring is not boring is not a word I would use for you.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

I don't know. I don't know what people think about me. I mean, I can be a bit brass and and loud and you're gregarious. I don't know. I guess. I don't know. I don't know. That's a good question. I should ask people that question myself and see what they say. Maybe do that. It would be interesting. I think you should. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

I think that's a that's a that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

I think people might think I'm narcissistic in some ways. You know, maybe I guess we all are a little bit. Yeah. I don't know. I I go through life. My new way of going through life is curious, humble, and grateful. And that's how I'm going through life.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Three, three beautiful things to actually live through and go through. Let's go to something a little more fun. Okay. Burning Man. Oh you talk about burning all that. You've tried to get me to go to Burning Man. I would love to go to Burning Man. You'd love it. I would love to go to Burning Man. I just think that I'm at a point in my life that, yeah, I do I really want to go to Burning Man? Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

But try everything at once. That's my motto. Try everything at once.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

I think for me, the the aspect of Burning Man, it's it opens up a person's creativity, spirituality, the freedom that you have. The environment gives you the permission to just liberating. And no judgment. No judgment. No judgments whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Radical inclusion.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

Oh my god. But but the thought of having to figure what I'm going to wear.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Oh. Well, you know what I do. You know how I do it. Like I know how to do it. I put my looks together. And I put them in Ziploc baggies. So I know if it's like a hot day, like I got this little look together.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

And I But you never know how the weather's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

And unless you got different looks and different bags, you know, you gotta have at least fur three fur coats, two jackets, and you start off at five in the morning if you get up and watch the sunrise. It could be 50 degrees. By the time you come home at like two in the afternoon, it's a hundred degrees, and you gotta be ready for all of it. And you gotta be paired with water and food. And I mean you have to be responsible. But for me, it's it's Disneyland for an adult mixed with everything else that it is. It's it's fun and there's dancing and there's just random, random places or random things. I always like have this practice whenever I go. And if I'm going home, I take six stops on the way home. Six things like maybe it's a seesaw, or there's a monkey bar, or there's a a naked bar saloon, or there's something, and I'm like to stop and meet people. It could take me two hours to get home, it would take me seven hours to get home. I just go and meet, and it's so but this is all Burning Man is also almost what how do you call it? Um like a trading, sharing. Yeah, yeah, you don't you don't pay for anything. You just there's gifts, it's all gifting. But I think the the one of the things besides the music and the art and the fun, and the other part that I really for me is important is the is the temple. And the temple is where they you know you go in and people like put up photos and notes of people they lost or pets they've lost or things that they've lost. And I spend almost every day sitting there for an hour or two and sitting and holding space with people as they cry and they sob. And it uh it's incredibly grounding for me to amongst the dancing and the fun to like go and pay honor to the people that that are suffering.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

I didn't know that about it. I didn't know that. Yeah, I mean, I I know it's all, but you know, the fun, the parties with this, uh you know, the being able to. But that is, I did not know that. And that's the temple that's literally there throughout the entire time.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

It's built, and then this people start filling it, and it's it's amazing to by the end to see. I remember one time Rod and I last year then they closed it off, and then they burn it, they burn it down, and it's it's a beautiful ceremony with fire and and like there's lots of stories I have, but one, this guy he just wanted to go one last time, and it was it was corded off because they started to get it ready to burn, and he just fell and he collapsed and just started crying. And his friends surrounded him, and I've to hear a man howl in pain like that is something you can't forget. And I just remember we just brought them some of our cover-ups, our blankets to put over them because it was hot burning sun. Gave him some water and just sat and just prayed with them. And he's must have been 35 years old. And it's yeah, those are the moments that you share resonate with me, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Yeah, yeah. Sweetheart. But uh wow.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

I there there is clearly there is so much more to Burning Man than Wow. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Sorry. No, it's just it's just it is it is all those things. It is dancing and joy and fun. It's it's it's everything, you know. And um, after my first burning man, there's a great story that I came back and I it it profoundly like impacted my life. And there's a saying, don't quit your job after your first burning man, but nobody told me that. You quit your job. I quit my job. That's that's when I set off on my journey and backpacked through Central and South America. What was your first year of your I mean 2017?

SPEAKER_03 39:39

That's when you first went to Burning. Yeah, yeah. And you've gone every year or so just about every year, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Yep. Yeah. And you quit your job. Quit my job. Give me five months' notice, and I backpacked and went to Central America, South America. That's what did a month of ayahuasca. Okay. In Peru and the Amazon. And that's when I wrote down a month long about ayahuasca, yes. And that's when I wrote down, like after a ceremony, I wrote down in this my journal, consider opening a gender-free non-binary shopping environment. I wrote fluid on quotation marks. And that was the day Fluid was born on April 17th, 2017. And I opened the store 10 months later. It was just it just came to me. It was the universe saying, This is what you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

And I did it.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

I did it.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

You did it a purpose. Oh my god. One last question.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

Before what do you what do you feel most you like about yourself? This is a little bit more of a what I like.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

I love I really am appreciating aging right now. I am I'll be 61 this year, and I love that I'm finally calming down. Like I don't have this. Are you really? I really am. I really am, and I love it. I'm becoming to become very peaceful with myself, comfortable in my skin, not trying to prove anything to anyone. I am I'm closer and more loving relationship with my husband. My circle is getting smaller and tighter. You're part of that circle, and my family is, and I feel somebody asked me the other day, like, how am I doing? Like, how am I feeling? And I and I gave myself a nine and a half out of ten. I feel spiritually connected, I feel physically. You can't ask for anything better than that. No, I mean I don't know what a 10 looks like, but I feel like I'm I'm moving that way in that direction, and it feels really good.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

I feel super like I just feel peaceful, content, fulfilled, fulfilled. That's how I feel right now. Rob Smith.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

Yeah, we had a good time. I love you. I love you. And I know lit I I mean, I love this conversation, and I know our listeners will love it too. You you know, you are just someone who exudes kindness, love, inclusivity. Because I've never met a person more inclusive than you and your husband. Thank you. It really is the amount of work that you do involving corporate America, how philanthropic you are, and just you can hold your own in a boardroom and you can hold your own in anything. Which is it's there are people that can do it, but not do it with such elegance and grace and gratitude the way you do it. It really is, it's it's extremely special. And being your authentic self.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

That is it, isn't it? Finding your authentic self, finding your authentic self is being your authentic self, regardless of the situation. It is to shine, shine, shine your light and let others reflect their light off of yours. That's how I that's how I want to show up every day.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

Well, we're gonna we'll have to do another episode later on down the road. We'll get Rod, your husband, in here.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

So it'd be a great interview, especially coming back fresh off of India. He's gonna be a good one. He's gonna be shining and raw, and I can't wait to hear about his experiences. I actually asked him not to talk to me for two weeks because I didn't want him to like think about anything.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

You're spoken to him in two weeks.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

No. No. I was talking to him once, once, once. Oh, okay. But I told him he was breaking the rule. I just wanted him to not think about anything logistically, think about anything, anything other than just be in the present moment at that time, taking his time to be there for himself.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

Brad, thank you again. I I really thank you so much for having me in your home, uh, sitting out in this beautiful barn, beautiful rain in the background. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Look how happy the trees are. Everyone's like, it's gonna rain. I'm like, no, but look at the flowers are happy, the trees are happy, the grass is happy. The lawn looks nice and green. The lawn's green, it's everything. This rain is just making this place much more beautiful. So I can appreciate the rain.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

Well, I won't keep you much longer. I love you.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

I love you.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

Have an amazing rest of your weekend. And everyone, thank you for joining us on Canvas. Until next time, we hope you enjoyed it. And we'll talk soon. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

Thanks for spending time with us on Canvas. Don't forget to subscribe, download, and follow the podcast on all platforms so you don't miss what's coming up next. We'll be back with a new conversation and a fresh perspective.